Ace Bates: Anti-brand?

This week seems like a good week to bring this one up...

But before I say anything else I have to make it clear that this entry is totally and completely based on an idea by my mate Warren, from Radar.

We were having a very, very, long chat (oh it was long) about graphic design and branding and stuff. It was really interesting. We were on branding and Wozza said something about Ace Bates skips and how he thought they'd created this kind of anti-brand. Unlike almost every other skip hire company who invariably stencil their logo onto their skips, Ace Bates just spray their name and phone number on, usually in red, freehand. I saw a truck load of new skips the other day, all shiny and dayglo yellow but still with their name and number sprayed on each side.

Since we had the chat I've been seeing Ace Bates skips everywhere and I've been finding their handy work compelling. That catchy name and such a distinct style - surely that's the starting point for the visual manifestation of any brand?

So, it occurred to me that it's perhaps not so much an anti-brand but an accidental brand. And I thought that was interesting.

Comments

[Bureau L'Imprimante]

So, using the same ways than the people mentioned in your previous post, they don't make their stuff look shit.
How strange…

[Tor Løvskogen]

That's just plain ugly, if you ask me ;)

[davidthedesigner]

Can you post the design manual?

[Richard]

Strange indeed. And ugly. But still interesting.

[Warren Black]

Thanks for the credit Rich.

You know, I only just noticed when looking at your photos, that despite the changing of local numbers from 6 digits to 8 digits several years ago, Ace Bates care so little that they still only have the last 6 - they leave it up to you to figure out putting the '90' or '028 90' at the start - Brilliant!

Even less care and attention - and yet, I think one of the key points that perhaps you missed from your post is that they still seem the most popular and successful skip company around Belfast (unscientifically, I feel I see them much more than any other skip company).

I guess that was my point about their 'anti-brand' - when our argument as designers (very simply put of course) is that a better brand will help bring more success to your company, they seem to do very well regardless. Of course, you could argue they would do EVEN BETTER with a 'better brand'. It's all very subjective I guess.

Anyway, if I ever start a skip hire company, I've got some great ideas for it. ;)

Finally, they don't seem to have a website, so I have no idea what their 'actual' branding/logo/letterhead might be like, but I like to think if I had the gig to design it, I would propose either a hand-sprayed style logo (perhaps with variations - print 4 different ones?), or, even bolder, just give them a red marker pen, and get them to write "Ace Bates - 719999" at the top of a blank A4 page...

[Richard]

I think your marker pen suggestion would be brilliant.

You're right, I should have made that point about them being the skips of choice around here.

Regarding "anti" or "accidental": I say the latter only because dispite their lack of care they've hit on a unique, distinct and strong look that now, could only be Ace Bates. As designers we could give them something smarter but it would be hard, perhaps impossible to manufacture that level of spontaneity.

[Evan]

It's got absolutely nothing to do with creating a successful "brand" or being a unique "design". They are ubiqitous through sheer swamping of the market. People tend to hire from the company their neighbour hired from and they've got so many skips that they are everywhere. If they had stencilled something on the side it would have been equally successful - maybe more so as it would stand out more. Despite being about the most expensive skip hire company out there and with a poor reputation for service they have simply swamped Belfast with skips and people follow thheir neighbours like sheep.

[Richard]

Blimey Evan, you know your skips don't you? Thanks for commenting.

[Brian]

I think there was a split in the camp a few years back with one of the Bates brothers going off on his own. His 'BATES' brand was stenciled onto the side of his skips if I remember correctly. I haven't seen any of them in a while though.

They haven't done too badly for themselves when you take into consideration the political backdrop that they've had to work against here in N. Ireland (a relation of theirs was the infamous Shankill Butcher Robert "Basher" Bates). Obviously you would think that their name would carry negative connotations, but they seem to have worked through that. They are, and have been for a very long time, just as popular in 'nationalist' areas as they are in 'loyalist' ones, which is to their credit.

If you were asked by the company to re-design their brand it would be very difficult. While their brand maybe isn't necessarily the reason that they have done so well (I personally believe it's down to the simplicity of their never-ever-ever changing telephone number), I don't think anyone could justify doing away with the self-made style that they have probably unknowingly created for themselves.

If you were to ask anyone in Belfast which skip company sprays their name free-style onto their skips, the majority of people would know it was Ace Bates. I think that qualifies it as being a brand. The brand could be cleaned up, and maybe it would consist of a number of variants as someone has already suggested, but it would be a travesty to do away with this truly UGLY but brilliant brand.

[Richard]

Thanks Brian, that's really interesting background info. Of course, I've only been over here for a couple of years so your take on the situation if fascinating. I've seen "Batesy" skips around (but not many) and have wondered if there was a connection - perhaps there it.

I've also noticed that someone else is spraying their name on there skips now, Ace Bates stylee.

[Nicklas]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/takete/386108797/

For those not in the know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

[ace bates office]

yes we are one of the best skip companys about belfast and it our eye catching design on our skips that get the company noticed.. and the shankill butcher robert basher bates is no relation to anyone from this company..

go on the wee batesys

[Batesy]

Just to let you know, Robert Bates IS a relation to Ace Bates. I should know, unfortunately I am also part of his family!

P.S. Ace skip design! :D

[Big James]

Since all of the family seem to be on this website, is there any chance you can collect the skip outside my house that you were supposed to collect a week ago?

Thanks in advance.